Interview: Lígia Gonçalves
Concert photos: Paulo Lobo
In 2019, the then-Minister of Culture, Graça Fonseca, announced the creation of a national strategy for arts and crafts. In September 2020, the Saber Fazer programme was approved, defining the national lines of action for the sector between 2021 and 2025, finally establishing a systematic way of thinking about the sector and making the Directorate-General for the Arts the body responsible for overseeing arts and crafts, at a moment of both practical and symbolic importance. In an interview, Américo Rodrigues, Director General of the Arts, discusses the importance of reorganising, reflecting and acting on the vast heritage of traditional crafts.
In March 2021, the news emerged that American designer Tory Burch was marketing a replica of the Poveira sweater, an iconic piece of traditional Portuguese culture closely associated with the fishermen of Póvoa do Varzim. Burch presented it as an original creation in her Spring 2021 collection, with no acknowledgement of Portugal on the brand’s website. The stated inspiration was the “Mexican Baja”. This sparked a natural outrage, leading to an apology and a moment that thrust a piece of Portuguese craftsmanship into the spotlight — an unusual occurrence for most national crafts.
Three months later, in June 2021, the Portuguese government officially established the Saber Fazer Association, a resolution included in the programme of the same name, approved in September 2020 and coordinated by the Directorate-General for the Arts. The strategy is a recognition of the importance of organising and systematising thinking about the arts and crafts sector. The decision to designate DGArtes as the overseeing body reflects an understanding of its profound value as a cultural asset. It is therefore recognised as a fundamental part of the identity of the regions and the country as a whole.
The first manifestation of this initiative took place in December 2022 with the launch of a digital repository — an online platform designed to gather information on a spectrum of “traditional crafts that exist in Portugal”. Given the “great richness and diversity” of these crafts, Américo Rodrigues, Director General of the Arts, characterises this endeavour as an ongoing “work in progress” and “a first sample of different techniques, different materials and many craftspeople”.
The interview delves into the wider implications of the arts and crafts and the importance of reframing them within the political agenda.
Q: Arts and crafts have long been part of our heritage and history. But it seems to have been a long time before there was any official strategic thinking on the subject, which only happened recently with the creation of the programme. Why?
A: It indeed took a long time to create this national programme, which corresponds to a strategic vision. In other words, there were already a number of bodies dealing with traditional arts and crafts, but this programme and the thinking that went into it have really contributed to the development and visibility of traditional arts and crafts.
The programme offers many job opportunities on different fronts. We need to develop it by creating more and more partnerships, more collaborative networks. And this is what DGArtes [Directorate General for the Arts] has been asked to do. Of course, DGArtes cannot do this alone. It’s worth noting that DGArtes, historically charged with supporting the development of the arts, particularly the performing and visual arts, did not originally have the task of supporting, protecting and promoting traditional arts and crafts. I’ve said that this decision to entrust the management of this programme to DGArtes has proved to be a good one, greatly helping DGArtes, which has been accustomed to a culture of, or supporting what some might consider to be more elitist arts… I don’t like these kinds of labels, but I think it makes sense to use them so that everyone can understand…
Q: And historically there has been this separation between this more elitist art, if I may use the expression, and craftsmanship, between artists and craftspeople…
A: Exactly, this is a dissolution of the previous rigid boundaries that, in retrospect, made little sense. In the past, DGArtes focused more on contemporary artists and included performing and visual arts, which often excluded what is commonly referred to as popular or traditional culture. Indeed, integrating the focus on traditional arts and crafts into DGArtes represents a challenge that prompts the organisation to engage in self-reflection. I don’t believe there’s an obvious dichotomy between high culture and popular culture. It doesn’t make sense to perceive them as antagonistic. At the time of the Estado Novo, there was something called “High Culture”, so all these concepts are completely outdated. And this idea of dealing with traditional arts and crafts at the same time as contemporary art is a great challenge for DGArtes. But of course, it’s also something we had to learn how to deal with, by creating a team to manage the programme within DGArtes, with everyone working together.
Q: It also forces us to reframe the notion of culture.
A: You know, I like crossroads. And this programme allows, for example, traditional crafts to be approached from a contemporary perspective or in conjunction with other arts, such as the performing arts. In fact, there are several examples of these different concepts working together, intersecting and crossing paths. What is important is that from now on there will be a governmental body that will, in a way, centralise support for traditional arts and crafts from a number of perspectives: concern for conservation; recognition and visibility of this sector; and also, we hope, the sustainable development of this sector of traditional arts and crafts. And we are now treating this sector with the same rigour with which we have treated all the other support programmes for the contemporary arts, even in terms of international representation. In other words, it’s not the poor relative, it’s on an equal footing with the other arts. This is also a change. It’s not as if this sector needed someone to recognise or value its work. It already had a great deal of value, it doesn’t need anyone or any organisation to certify it.
Q: In this instance, the establishment of the Saber Fazer association closely coincided (a few months later) with the controversy surrounding the Poveira sweater, replicated by the American designer Tory Burch. Is there indeed a synchronicity between these two occurrences, or is it merely a coincidence?
A: It does appear to be a coincidence. However, it’s plausible that the events surrounding the Poveira sweater, in some way, triggered or influenced certain political actions. In essence, the need for action might have been underscored by observing the impact of a particular catalyst. But it’s a good example of the need for action.
Q: Did the situation somehow establish this urgency?
A: Several ministries were already concerned about this. Even in the area of culture, there was already this concern, which was being dealt with by another organisation, the Directorate-General for Cultural Heritage, in charge of what is called intangible heritage. So, this concern already existed. But all these actions, or these controversies, move things along. And that’s a good thing.
Q: In other words, the programme wants craft production to function “as a way of affirming the brand identity of the territories and the country”. What brand is this?
A: This brand comprises various elements, and one of them is the rich and diverse reality of traditional crafts. The brand encompasses all these contributions, constituting an ongoing construction that derives strength from diversity. In our case, the initial steps involved creating a repository and subsequently establishing a digital platform. This extensive work engaged numerous craftspeople, photographers, and specialists who contributed many texts. From this initial sample presented on the website, showcasing the repository, one can already observe the substantial and somewhat overlooked wealth that arts and crafts, particularly traditional crafts, represent in Portugal. This initial glimpse encompasses various techniques, materials, and craftspeople.
Q: Indeed, when considering a craft such as basket weaving, the variety of materials and approaches across the country are numerous. In 2022, when the digital repository was launched, it was emphasised that “this ongoing work would not stop” and that the platform would be continuously enriched for “years and years”. How much is left to map?
A: Every day brings a realisation that there is still much to map. Discoveries continually unfold. There are daily interactions with craftspeople. Contacts with people in regions far from Lisbon reveal their interests in specific arts or crafts. As the project progresses, various issues emerge that need development, such as exploring gastronomic heritage or delving into arts associated with cultural heritage, like pipe organs. There’s so much. I feel that there really is a lot to do. I hope that there will continue to be a political, governmental commitment to the development of this repository, which is constantly under construction. It really is one of those projects that is a work in progress. So always, always under construction. We are always discovering new things. Always gathering information. Always building bridges to the territory, to the people, to the training centres. There are immense possibilities here, so it’s very challenging.
Q: What challenges are inherent in this ongoing project, spanning the entire national territory and encompassing diverse fields of craftsmanship?
A: Although we initially focused on various arts, the intention is to integrate additional arts each year. For example, we already had the route for wickerwork, palm weaving, silk thread, tinwork, wool blankets and covers, and bunho furniture. Recently, we added black clay pottery, bobbin lace and Lorvão sticks, which may seem insignificant at first, but are, as you know, really beautiful. The concept of Saber Fazer is to focus on specific arts and materials each year, with a particular focus on techniques that are in danger of disappearing. That’s why a team is constantly working on this survey, in collaboration with the municipalities and the local area. This is the main challenge: the team is small and has to multitask between different activities. It would be beneficial for the team to expand, work more efficiently, and document these endangered techniques promptly.
Additionally, there’s another aspect that I believe requires attention or is not as developed as we’d like, and that is the connection to commerce, as it is one of the programme’s objectives. It involves not only identifying the existence of a workshop but also understanding where the products are sold, whether the workshop is open, whom to contact, or if the products are available in stores in the city centres of Lisbon or Porto. Establishing these connections is crucial. It’s not sufficient to conduct a survey or mapping, no matter how comprehensive, without addressing this aspect.
Q: As part economy and part culture, is this link to commerce fundamental to their survival?
A: Yes, but some crafts are really dying out. For example, I only know one craftsman who makes bronze bells. I only know one craftsman in the country who makes shearing scissors. Now, we can’t just limit ourselves to pointing out and mapping these cases. We have an obligation to indicate where these products can be bought. Furthermore, although I’m not sure that the current programme can achieve this, we must help prevent them from disappearing. How can we prevent them from disappearing? I think it involves training initiatives so that new apprentices can learn from the masters. So, as you can see, there are a lot of work opportunities here. I don’t know if we’ll be able to do everything in time, but we’re making a great effort. Another axis is the collection of studies, which is also very important, and the repository ensures this: a comprehensive collection of studies and monographs throughout the country, so that we all know what these crafts were, what purpose they served. In the beginning, they had a function, they were utilitarian. Now they can be used in different ways. This leads to another aspect of this programme that we also need to develop: the interface, for example, with contemporary design.
Q: However, many of these arts are practised in regions that are themselves forgotten because they are more depopulated…
A: But on this point, I would like to say that by placing this programme under the responsibility of DGArtes, DGArtes links it to other public policy instruments in the field of culture. And this is a great advantage. For example, we are developing a support programme called Arts and Territorial Cohesion, which shows a great concern for the territory. This means that we support projects that take place in areas with less cultural supply and less cultural creation. So for us, everything is linked. We have to make sure that everything makes sense, like a strategy that is linked to other strategies and is mutually beneficial. It’s a different perspective.
Q: Does it involve thinking of a heterogeneous country?
A: Exactly, it’s a different way of looking at the country. It’s a look at the cultural potential. Because the idea, which is a terrible idea, that “there is no culture in the provinces” makes no sense at all. There are a lot of creations all over the country; it is necessary to give them a stage, to give them visibility and, of course, to support this effort.
Q: And what is there to think about in these regions, beyond this absolutely cosmopolitan and even somewhat elitist idea that culture only happens in the cities?
A: But there could be highly cosmopolitan proposals in Castro Daire. As indeed there are.
Q: This idea of thinking about people, thinking about regions without this prejudice of what it is or isn’t to be cosmopolitan, is this a new framework for the country, for the regions?
A: Of course. That’s how we see it. The black clay of Molelos is just as important to us as a production by the Teatro Aberto in Lisbon. DGArtes now sees the territory, artistic production and creation as complementary, each contributing in its way to the cultural development of the country. So, there is diversity. There is also a lot of quality that is often overlooked. There are many cultural, artistic agents, artists, folk artists, craftspeople, or whatever you want to call them, doing great work all over the country. We just need to appreciate them more. We need to promote them more, especially on the international stage. It’s about doing it with a criterion of demand, with curatorial work. We want to treat traditional crafts in exactly the same way as we treat our participation in the visual arts in Venice. Our mission is to support, and we will support in the best way, with all the rigour and competence necessary.
Q: Craftsmanship, know-how and these techniques are exponentially linked to a series of historical events and their social ramifications are far-reaching. Do craftsmanship and know-how also play a social role?
A: Of course, they do. We’ve already mentioned
that craftsmanship serves territorial cohesion; it serves to correct asymmetries; it serves to develop territories from an economic point of view; it serves to strengthen self-esteem; it serves to create an idea of environmental sustainability, taking into
account the materials that are used; it serves to promote tourism… I mean, it really serves many purposes.
Q: Have they been fulfilling that role?
A: Not as much as we would like. That’s why this programme was created: to contribute, to give an impulse so that this work becomes more systematic, linked to awareness campaigns, exhibitions with criteria… The idea is essentially to improve what exists. And what exists is potentially very valuable. We are about to have our first international experience [at the Mains de Maîtres biennial, held in Luxembourg from 23 to 26 November], and this will certainly help us to learn important lessons. It’s not a fair, it’s not a market where everything piles up. It’s a very carefully curated exhibition, with well-defined themes, ways of exhibiting, ways of using the space… If it goes well, because Portugal is the theme country, this exhibition will not only circulate in Portugal, but will also be presented in other initiatives abroad. And of course, we can change curators because we are interested in other perspectives. I’m very interested in the perspective of people in the visual arts on craft, but also the perspectives of anthropologists, sociologists, philosophers, geographers. There are many ways of approaching craft, and given that the Directorate General for the Arts has been given the task of developing this programme, we have an obligation to build bridges with other artistic fields and thus develop the potential that craft already has.
Q: Here, too, there is a link to the market. With the new interest, there is also a need for reinvention. Because without a systematic perspective, without market demand, the disappearance of certain crafts is inevitable. Have many already disappeared without being noticed?
A: As far as the techniques and objects in danger of disappearing are concerned, there is a survey of these techniques within the framework of the programme to act in time. I don’t know if it will be possible to save them because in some cases it is beyond our reach, but at least to document, to organise the memory, to collect the memory of these craftspeople, of these workshops, of this knowledge. And try to pass it on to other generations. And maybe in a few years, there will be a young person who says: “this is my path, I want to learn this technique.” This has already happened.
Q: And how does the preservation of these techniques contribute to the cultural panorama?
A: All this, everything we’ve been talking about, apart from being a repository, a living archive, is creation, imagination, a link to other fields of knowledge.
Q: Are these arts themselves heritage?
A: Of course. These are practices with which we identify, whether we are aware of it or not. But they are our practices, our culture, and in some way they have built our identity or helped to build our identity, obviously linked to other sectors. For example, pastoral art is obviously linked to the herds, to transhumance, but also to cheese, to the use of vegetable products, such as the thistle used in Serra cheese. In other words, you could tell the story of a particular region or land through these artefacts, these techniques or the oral memory of a craftsman. Connecting all this across the country would create a beautiful map. Identifying different practices by region would help us to understand the Portuguese better, to understand who they are. Going back to Luxembourg, for example, I am very curious about the reaction of the emigrants. The exhibition [at the Mains de Maîtres Biennial] is intended for all audiences, but one of the things we want to analyse is what the emigrants will say. Does this clay bowl or this coffee pot symbolise something they don’t want to go back to, or is it something they identify with and say “this is us”?
